Curse

freaky naughty · Feb 12, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Yeah, I'm not flaming you or anything but this idea could make the most useless build into complete rape-mode. Just admit that you're wrong, we're not flaming just trying to explain why stacking enchants is a bad idea.

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

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Sorry but that idea would really, really mess up the game...

I concede the point of Peace and Harmony (though if you balanced it with a 10 MP cost it should be fine,) though I haven't heard of Healer's Boon. That's only two, three if Healer's Boon is counted, skills so far that don't really work, though.

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Guild wars is basically over, all that will happen from now on is minor tweaks to the game, not a complete change of the skill system...

Than what the heck, may I ask, is this forum for?

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It's really a bad idea... [stuff about who has more firepower winning and not skill]

I fail to see why that is, enlighten me.

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The reasons why this is a bad idea should really be self-evident if you think about it for a moment...

Than spend a couple moments and mention these "self-evident" reasons.

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Yeah, I'm not flaming you or anything...

You don't really explain your point, so your point really has no weight. And while you may be polite (I thank you for that, by the way,) nobody else has so far that I remember.

MisterB · Feb 12, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link1228

Than spend a couple moments and mention these "self-evident" reasons.

[skill]Soldier's Fury[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill]
Meet my completely overpowered Paragon friend with 8 arms to throw spears at you.

edit: Might as well throw on [skill]Flail[/skill] and [skill]Rush[/skill] instead of Frenzy, since Adrenaline won't matter because I'm stacking Soldier's Fury to infinity...

EinherjarMx · Feb 12, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Applying 2 prot spirits would reduce damage to 1%,

even 2 strenght and honor would give a ~+22 damage to any class, imagine that on a hammer war or a derv

everyone have stated that stacking would screw gameplay, 4 "Charge!"would give all the team a 100% speed boost

just don't
/notsigned

freaky naughty · Feb 12, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Ok, take for example the skill Order of the Vampire. With 16 blood magic, having 5 necromancers keeping this on a warrior the warrior will have 17x5 lifestealing = 85 per hit.

Order of Pain is pretty much the same except it deals 17 dmg per each enchant rather than stealing health.

Re-casting healers boon on yourself everytime it recharges would be complete hell for any damagedealer. HB in case you didn't know causes all spells to cast 50% faster and heal for 50% more. That multiplied by 5 is what you're gonna get if enchants stack.

Think of the energy regen necro skills like BiP, you could have +10 energy regen with only 2 of them up at the same time.

Think about Aura of the Lich, being on you twice, would it half your health twice but give you 4x dmg resistance? What about deathnova? I don't think ten death novas on the same person wiping half a team is "smart pvp". What about speedbuffs like stormdjinns haste? Would the buff stack making +100% faster? Armor of Earth? +120 armor ftw! What about echoing feigned neutrality? Would +7 regen and +80 armor turn into +14 regen and +160 armor?

Making them stack would turn the game upside down. Still though I'm not flaming you.

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

The first would be overpowered, probably, but since it's probably overpowered already, that doesn't mean much. The second costs 25 MP, that doesn't leave much leftover for the first. The third doubles the damage you take. The fourth requires a dead ally.

Sure, if you have 40 MP to throw around, that would be deadly. But since that isn't even possible with a Warrior...might be with a Paragon, I haven't used them. But even if it is, that right there would be all you're doing. 168% attack speed, yes, but overpowered? I wouldn't say so.

EDIT:
(Response to Freaky Naughty's last post)
I don't play with Necromancers. Ever, actually. I seriously don't know any of these skills...and again, thanks for the lack of flamage.
EDIT (again): By the way, the bit with Armor of Earth, Storm Djinn's Haste, etc...wouldn't that cost quite a chunk of Energy?

And to everyone's posts, practically, please keep in mind what I actually said in my original post. Two +33% speed boosts is not +66% speed, the second would be 33% of what's there. So two +33% boosts would actually be a +44% boost. Same with all other percentages (such as, probably, these protection spirits EinherjarMx speaks of.)

Undivine · Feb 12, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I'd be concerned that teams would be even more homogenous. Every group in PvE would just be 2 eles, 4-5 monks, and a warrior. In fact, they might have to do that, because fighting a horde of 5-8 mesmer monsters can be painful as it is; imagine if all of that stacked!

PvP would be affected badly too. I could compile a long list of skills that would be tremendously overpowered if it stacked, but it's a lot of work, so let's just leave it at "a lot of rebalancing would have to be done."

Now, if you're suggesting they do this for GW2, I would have 3 complaints about that:

As I said before, it would encourage people to have very homogenous groups.
Balancing such a skill set where everything can stack would be an incredible amount of work.
When you come upon a build that does one effect really well, you *must* have a counter to it, or you have lost. As it is now, if you don't have a counter, there are usually ways to compensate.

Link1228 · Feb 12, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

I don't think they'd be encouraged to be homogenous, merely enabled to do so. You might be right, I'm not sure, it just doesn't really seem like it'd be that way. It seems to me more that the current system forces people not to be homogenous because the status effects don't stack, so if you have more than one spellcaster, they better rely on non-status spells or be sure their skills don't overlap.

I don't PvP, so I wouldn't know about any of said PvP skills that would need fixing...

I'm not suggesting it for GW2, currently I'm not sure if I'm suggesting it for GW1. But I do have replies to your points:
1. Previously answered.
2. Not really, I don't think. You'd just have to balance the MP costs and recharge times based on what they do more, without counting on there only being one. Balancing would be different, but I don't think it would be more - or at least much - more difficult.
3. I don't really know why it's so much different than how things are now, honestly. Also, what if two teams meet each other that do what they do really well, do they both die? :P

genofreek · Feb 12, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Hey hey, they nerfed Mystic Regen! Now we can just cast it three times and get back to good.

...yeah, I've been playing longer than three days. >_> /notsigned.

RPGmaniac · Feb 12, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

[skill]Soldier's Fury[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill]
Meet my completely overpowered Paragon friend with 8 arms to throw spears at you.

edit: Might as well throw on [skill]Flail[/skill] and [skill]Rush[/skill] instead of Frenzy, since Adrenaline won't matter because I'm stacking Soldier's Fury to infinity...

I see serious lack of [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

Perkunas · Feb 12, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Stack Healing Breeze as an example. HB is enchantment, double damage with shatter enchantments? (or whatever that skill is called)

TGgold · Feb 12, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

The problem is that the OP thinks that energy costs balance skills. He's probably never heard of using a high energy weapon set. He also isn't aware of MOST skills in the game that would be totally broken while stacked.

Basically, stacking enchants would totally ruin their viability for single characters since they'd have to be nerfed into the ground. Look at early paragons.

HawkofStorms · Feb 12, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

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Originally Posted by RPGmaniac

I see serious lack of [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

Who cares about adrenaline. He'd be attacking like 25 times every second.

ZenRgy · Feb 12, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Who cares about adrenaline. He'd be attacking like 25 times every second.

I don't see the problem with that at all.

Let's just make all weapons do like, 3-3 damage and then we can play in turbo mode!

If effects stacked, things would be too powerful, and the "balance" this game prides itself upon and builds itself around (and is what makes this game any fun) would be gone totally.

MagmaRed · Feb 12, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Link1228, consider this a flame if you must, but this is an observation. I don't think you know enough about the game to make this kind of proposal. As others have mentioned, there are MANY skills that this destroys. You have said you don't know certain skills, don't use certain classes, and your responses to people saying certain skills will be overpowered scares me. For instance, you were told Armor of Earth would offer a HUGE armor bonus to someone. Your response was that it would cost a lot of energy. It is only a 10 energy spell, and a Elementalist easily exceeds 80 energy for most builds.

Learn more about the game, and how it works before trying to change it.

shru · Feb 12, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

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Originally Posted by Link1228

For instance, a team completely composed of monks save one warrior. All the monks put 4 Mending on the warrior, making him, for all intents and purposes, invincible. This is all fine and dandy, but the monks are (as usual) vulnerable and they have a limited amount of MP, and the warrior's defenses can be broken down if you have enough Shatter Enchantments (especially if you killed a monk or two.) And if enough of the monks get killed, the warrior can die as well.

wow...Just wow.
that quote pretty much speaks for itself.

Master Ketsu · Feb 12, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

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Anyone with a basic understanding of the GW mechanics would never agree with this.

^^^

Pretty much it.

When I read this suggestion I thought up about a dozen ways to instagib or never die. Bad idea.

A few common sense examples:

[skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]
Oh yah lets stack mystic regen on itself !!!
-+3 regen, 5 seconds later +12 regen. No other skill required. Retarded.

55's would essentially be unkillable.

A derv stacking RoF on itself. Fun fun.

And do you mean hexes should stack too ?

Echo Backfire = Lawl
Echo Empathy = Lawl
Echo Pretty much any counter hex = Lawl

To put it in simple terms, allowing Buffs and debuffs to stack would cause classes that rely on that type of skill to become rediculously overpowered. 8 D/Mo's could stack their bar with enchantments galor, mystic regen, reapers sweep, and blaze through halls for the very reason that any attempt to stop or counter them ( that would normally be fairly easy to do. 8 D/mo's is a stupid idea ) would be futile since they would simply stack the effectsof maintained enchantments, mystic, holy veil, ect. to have a bazillion regen, immunity to hexes/conditions, and near infinite energy from the enchants ending on them all the time.

Mesmers and necros could easily make it so no skill can be used. Thing backfire on top of backfire on top of soul leech on top of the same cover hex stacked 3 times. Their would be no counter because any attempt the monk would make to counter such a thing would result in their instadeath.

The idea would require a balance re haul so large you might as well make a different game.

Reason · Feb 12, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

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Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Link1228, consider this a flame if you must, but this is an observation. I don't think you know enough about the game to make this kind of proposal. As others have mentioned, there are MANY skills that this destroys. You have said you don't know certain skills, don't use certain classes, and your responses to people saying certain skills will be overpowered scares me. For instance, you were told Armor of Earth would offer a HUGE armor bonus to someone. Your response was that it would cost a lot of energy. It is only a 10 energy spell, and a Elementalist easily exceeds 80 energy for most builds.

Learn more about the game, and how it works before trying to change it.

This just about sums it up...

but being able to stack VwK 4,815,162,342 times wile UW farming makes me have to give it a huge

/signed!

Onarik Amrak · Feb 12, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

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Originally Posted by Link1228

All the monks put 4 Mending on the warrior, making him, for all intents and purposes, invincible.

That made me lol.

I Will Heal You Ally · Feb 12, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

/not signed
Using double Ward of Melee 100% miss o_0, ward against ele = powerfull, ward against foes = 100% slow movement?

It just wouldn't work